Curse

quickmonty · May 23, 2006, 04:15 PM // 16:15

I appreciate all the feedback, and the fact that so far this remains civil. I am enjoying reading all the diverse opinions. But let me clarify. I'm not asking for a seperation in the sense that you either do one or the other. I know enough players enjoy doing both and want to keep that diversity. But as some have stated there is too strong a link between the two which tends to cause a riff between the hardcore and the casual players. "Bob" may want to come home from work (school) and unwind by going head to head with others, while "Joe" just wants to relax and do some casual problem solving. Why can't we have both without requiring the two to overlap so much. And Anet has stated that they intended to integrate PvP and PvE more in Factions. Result so far is the increased animosity seen on this, and other forums.

{Edited for spelling}

lyra_song · May 23, 2006, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

Seriously why not have NC-Soft close down A-Net straight away.
If you read the threads here on Guru you must have realiste by now that a big part of players prefere one form of the game and not the other and do not like beeing forced to enjoy the other ,pve to pvp or pvp to pve. This is not school where you have to do what your told.
GW is a game ppl love and they are making suggestions hoping to improve the game not kill it.
Neither side would standfor more integration, and if too many ppl leave the game, it's over, finito, goodbye THE END

Im VERY well aware of the massive rift between the PvP players and the PvE players. -.-

Personal preference aside, i believe that keeping PvP and PvE seperate will only WIDEN the gap between the two player types and force more animosity and bias. Both player types NEED to understand each other, and you cant learn about another kind of person by staying far far far away. The two communities need to get up close and personal and learn from each other.

The WaW system is an example of how PvE and PvP are linked. However this is flawed because it is a ONE WAY relationship.

I dislike playing a game with such a divided community. In factions, we are divide via factions, but PvP is still PvP and PvE is still PvE, regardless of faction.

I HATE people who only choose to play one side or another and refuse to give the other playing style another shot. Seriously PvP is fun. Defeating a real person in a good match is very satisfying and heart racing. PvE is also massively fun. I love the grind. I love treasure hunting. I love exploring and capping skills.

Anet's idea of making the community whole is fine, its just their way of doing it is flawed.

demon dantes · May 23, 2006, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Funniest thread, seperate PVP from PVE. PVE is already seperate just don't come into a PVP aren. The End!

another flame by our wonderfull friend here at walmart. instead of just saying do not come into pvp why not give a reason why a pve player should not or actually say something about this guys thread other then just flaming every post you answer.

SpeedyKQ · May 23, 2006, 07:32 PM // 19:32

The way things are now is mostly perfect. People can do whichever they like, or both, and avoid what they dislike. I was worried that Factions was going to force PVE'ers to PVP, but thankfully it didn't.

The sole exception to this is the favor of the gods system. When and if they make a way for PVE'ers to access the gods' realms without PVPing, I'll be 100% satisfied.

Wrath · May 23, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Umm actually the kurz/lux faction that you get is worthless to people who only pvp. These rewards are only useful for rpg characters. The only people who farm it are the ones who actually enjoy the format, and the hybrid(pvp+pve) players.

I enjoy both sides and would like to see them brought closer together. I'd like to be able to use this faction for something besides fancy armor, or control of a town (which my small guild could never even hope for).

Sanji · May 23, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

The problem isn't that PvE and PvP are integrated. The problem is that PvE and PvP are -poorly- integrated.

No matter how extremist bluster and seethe about their "mode" of Guild Wars on the forums, figuring a way to build positive and fun synergy between PvE and PvP would without a doubt be better for the game.

Roupe · May 23, 2006, 08:06 PM // 20:06

As for the identity of the afks, and leechers in faction - i thinks its bad apples from both "sides" rather than one, and as both the "purist" PvP & PvE still can and avoid each other it isnt that much of a problem.

In faction, its mostly PVE that has been forced doing PvP, rather than the opposite (not counting PvP tutorial island and Heroes Ascent). In prophesies a little PVP was mandatory for PvE (the transition between Pre and Post).

Then there are those PVPs that like doing the PVEs PVP arenas, rushing their lowlevel characters with droknar armor for battles in Ascalon Arena, and skipping the rest.

The PVEP missions isnt mandatory, and can easily be skipped for those who dont like it. There are other ways of getting faction, than PVP after all

-I Personally as a PVE are more disturbed by the Coop missions; in short.
Having the success (or failure rest upon ones shoulder) for the mission, due to an unknown party that I have no option of affecting or communicating with.

For example
dying shortly after starting the mission because the Local people couldnt adequatly defend Master Togu, before the foreign "cavalry" to appear. Most often a sad assasin, that didnt get an party invitation -and thus decided to hench it.

lyra_song · May 23, 2006, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanji

The problem isn't that PvE and PvP are integrated. The problem is that PvE and PvP are -poorly- integrated.

No matter how extremist bluster and seethe about their "mode" of Guild Wars on the forums, figuring a way to build positive and fun synergy between PvE and PvP would without a doubt be better for the game.

QFT! This is my exact sentiments! >.<

I want all PvP and PvE to be one happy family, acknowledging each other as part of the same game community.

Roupe · May 23, 2006, 08:34 PM // 20:34

I think the new Title system will help with much of the internal discord. I too would like the community more united, even if theres a fraction between Luxons and Kursicks factions.

"we should not be enemies, the things that unite us are greater than the things that seperate us"

I do mostly PVE, but does occasionally PVP

M3lk0r · May 23, 2006, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Can the OP be a bit more clear no how he (or she?) wants to "seperate" the 2 sides?

The favour for UW/FoW system is the only thing really affecting anybody, and there have been enough posts about that in the past. Everything is entirely OPTIONAL to the PvE'r. Whereas PvP'ers who want to become and remain competetive, absolutely requires a PvE char, but that is for another thread.

WasAGuest · May 23, 2006, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

QFT! This is my exact sentiments! >.<

I want all PvP and PvE to be one happy family, acknowledging each other as part of the same game community.

I agree with this. I don't want bickering back and forth either. But, this will never happen unless Anet unlinks the two sides from (and here's the key) being reliant or bound to each other. Why? Not everyone enjoys the PvP game, no matter how good it is, no matter how many ways it's told "You should try it, I love it!"... it will never matter. In fact, the more Anet and players attempt to shove PvP at the PvEers, the more hostile the situation will become. This is true with PvP players the second someone mentions all HoH battles will be locked untill each member has completed the Titan Quests (or whatever the choice of the week is).
One side should never and I mean never have to play one play style to gain access to an area they want to get into. Is this the current case? Some will say yes. Keep reading and you will find it's not 100% true.
The Elite Missions are gained via faction farming. Farming being amoung the more boring eye bleeding forms of game play one can think of (to me anyway). Only the largest alliances have a chance at "earning" their way there. And in this case, "earning" is used lightly as it's just time spent ala repetition.
FoW and UW. Only way to "earn" or gain access to them is via PvP. Sorry, there's no other way. PvE content is 100% blocked unless the region you are in has won HoH via PvP.
This spite we have now is thanks to that Favor system and the unforgiving nature of the PvPers saying "don't change favor, just go win HoH and you'll have access". Then the spite grows when the repeatable quests in PvE are changed and the PvP mini games "seem" the only real option of gaining faction at a reasonable time frame (or the ever notorious leeching and afkers way of doing it). When the PvEers ask for a change to make the repeatable quests better, more rewarding and more challenging, we are told to go play AB, join in Jade/Aspen and "learn" to love the PvP game that they love. WTH?

Please read the post completely and carefully. You will find that a great deal of it as "feelings" and "seems like" opinions. I bring this up, because we are all people and what we feel and what seems to be, often is in each persons mind... no matter how far fetched it might seem to one person, it's reality to another... like PvP being fun... far fetched opinion to me, but reality to others.

Sanji · May 23, 2006, 09:34 PM // 21:34

PvP has never blocked anything vital for PvE. Nobody needs to go to the FoW or UW to beat or enjoy the majority of the game. The same applies to the Elite Missions in Factions. You don't have to PvP to get the 10K Faction to progress through the Cantha storyline

The same can't be said about PvE. When Guild Wars first came out, there was no other way to get skills and runes other than playing through PvE. They had introduced Factions later on, but it wasn't nearly enough, the gains were far too slow initially. Even now, it's far too impractical to unlock most things with faction.

The resentment and catty quips go both ways. Many PvPers say what they do because of crap like "No, you need to earn it like everyone else!" when they asked Anet for a fix when it came to the skill grind.

It's nowhere near as one-sided as many would like to believe, both extremes have their issues and both are at fault for the snarkiness and forum drama.

Though a great deal of blame lies in Anet for being so clusmy and heavy handed in trying to combine PvE and PvP. Splitting them apart isn't going to fix anything. The only possible solution is to both admit and learn from their mistakes.

Replicant · May 23, 2006, 09:55 PM // 21:55

/signed

PvP should NOT have any aspect on PvE. it's just poor thinking by Anet. Yes it does help balance things between PvE and PvP by means of favor and access to UW and FoW, but is stupid that PvP players control this for the people that only PvE.

95% of my Guild is PvE and the other 5% is PvE and PvP that do more equal amounts of PvE and PvP.. But why should we not have access to what we like to do because America doesn't have Favor... If we want to do UW/FoW we should be able to..

Currently PvP Controls PvE Aspects like FoW/UW, but does PvE control if you can get into Team Areans? NO. They should be 2 completly diffrent parts of the game.

I have PvE'd about 95% of my Accounts lifespan, I hate PvP in every Aspect in this game. (I love PvP in all other games i've played, just don't enjoy it in this game) But i don't see why we have the system how it is right now. its stupid that PvP controls PvE but PvE doesn't control any part of PvP.

Tarun · May 23, 2006, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Well said Replicant.

/signed

WasAGuest · May 23, 2006, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanji

PvP has never blocked anything vital for PvE. Nobody needs to go to the FoW or UW to beat or enjoy the majority of the game. The same applies to the Elite Missions in Factions. You don't have to PvP to get the 10K Faction to progress through the Cantha storyline

Vital is a matter of opinion. Thanks to the lack of end game stuff in Chapter 1, one could argue that FoW/UW is vital to the end game and is part of the fun. I also said that what I posted was based off of a personal opinion, therefore to me (and probably others) access should be allowed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanji

The same can't be said about PvE. When Guild Wars first came out, there was no other way to get skills and runes other than playing through PvE. They had introduced Factions later on, but it wasn't nearly enough, the gains were far too slow initially. Even now, it's far too impractical to unlock most things with faction.

And it was changed to some point. So why the battling to not have it changed for PvE?
See, this is the reason the bickering remains. It's not allowed by the player base to even be fair. It was changed for PvP to some extent yet the second someone asks for a change for PvE, it's "No - go earn it"... yet, that's what we (PvEers) keep asking for. A way to earn it via PvE. We don't want to go to HoH to PvP to open something, we want something in PvE to open those areas. What's so hard to understand about that?
By unlinking the two game styles, we are only enhancing the game play for each; rather than having a thin, pitiful mix between the two.

I agree with the rest of your post though, Anet just needs to see the mistake and fix them... which is of course what this thread is about. The request to fix via unlinking the two.

quickmonty · May 23, 2006, 10:12 PM // 22:12

I would like to think that we can all get along, but it doesn't seem like it is possible. Just discussing one possible option, although it may be somewhat extreme and I am already sensing the hostile vibes. I prefer one style of play. I have nothing against those that prefer the other style. I would like to see a continued discussion without rehashing old arguments and with everyone trying to remain calm. So far, so good.

Somewhere way up in the post someone asked just what I had in mind about seperating PvE from PvP. I was intentionally vague, allowing the members of this forum to put forth their ideas on how to best accomplish that task. I don't have answers, only a suggestion.

romO · May 23, 2006, 10:13 PM // 22:13

I would personally like to hear the complaints of the PvE side of this. The only ones that should be complaining are the PvPers because we are forced to go through hours and hours of PvE for skills and weapon unlocks as well as superior characters (with the ability of weapon and armor swapping). This is the arguement for UAX, yet it has not been granted, forcing every PvP player to play immense and unwanted amounts of PvE. There is faction, but realistically, PvE is still much faster if one desires to achieve UAX and PvE characters need to be used for armor swapping. On the PvE side, one NEVER needs to enter a PvP arena if they so desire. Factions and unlocks are pointless because all they are good for is unlocks for PvP characters and so one would not need those. Alliance battles and the rest of the nonsense are unnecessary as one can go through the game even more easily through PvE. Play through the game, play through the game again, play through the game again, farm, play through the game again, farm, and repeat. There is no PvP necessary or involved. Now what needs to be removed?

Perhaps I am missing something, but from personal experience, all that I have seen is PvE interfering in PvP and not vice versa. Can someone please explain to me the arguement as to why PvP interferes at all with PvE because the simple idea of "just don't do it" should overrule it.

Thus, I do not want to repeat the UAX arguement yet again, but other than that, I fail to see what parts of PvP and PvE need to be separated.

Jagflame · May 23, 2006, 10:18 PM // 22:18

/Not Signed

I enjoy the integration and I think it will be better for the community in the long run. Right now most players only don't play the opposite style simply because they have convinced that it is no fun. Of course these stubborn players will fight at first, but I think that in time people will adjust more and it will be a better style before. It is my belief that synergy between the two styles will increase overall quality of gameplay.

Glitched · May 23, 2006, 10:20 PM // 22:20

I'm actually okay with their integration. I would just like to see that they become 100% optional in future chapters. Someone who wants the pve mission title should in no way be required to pvp. Nor should they have to pvp to get 15k materials in reasonable time.

/Notsigned, but I somewhat agree

lightblade · May 23, 2006, 10:27 PM // 22:27

NO!!!

Integrated PvP and PvE is what makes GW stands out of all the other MMORPGs. It is what makes it unique!

/not signed